The Chronology of a Talmud Page
The subtitle before our previous discussion, of the paragraph in tractate Hullin, indicated that it belongs to the fourth century, but as some readers may have noticed, the scholars mentioned in the paragraph lived in periods ranging from the 3rd to the 5th century.
This is a typical phenomenon in the Talmud, and it has to do with the question of the final editing of the Talmud, or better yet, of whether such editing took place. This is still debated by scholars, some of whom claim that the Talmud was carefully and meticulously edited. The textual and historical evidence, however, points at the other direction. In the relatively dark period, between the last known Talmudic sages and the first Geonim, a group of scholars, known as the Sevoraim, shaped much of what we know as the Talmud. They merged discussions from different periods and places, with varying results. In some places the work of the Sevoraim is seamless and the reader feels that he is dealing with one continuous text, unaware of the diverse origin of the particular pieces, while in other places the discussion seems to digress or repeat itself. The Sevoraim worked anonymously, a fact which complicates the attempts of reconstructing the original text and separating the layers chronologically. In this Talmudic discussion, I will try to illustrate how this hidden editing works and how it affected the Halakhic mindset.
Let us now return to the Talmudic discussion: we left it with Rav Asei asking Rabbi Yohanan how long should one wait after meat before eating cheese? He answered: there is no need to wait.
Here the Sevoraim [whose names are not mentioned] interrupt the flow of the story with a statement: this cannot be, since Rav Hisda [died 309] said that one is allowed to eat meat after cheese, but not cheese after meat. The Sevoraim therefore conclude that there must have been a mistake in the transmission of the story so they rewrite it to say:
He asked how long should one wait after cheese before eating meat and was answered that there is no need to wait.
This is a classic example of the hidden work of the Sevoraim. The story, which took place 150-200 years before their time did not make sense to them, because in their time it was already customary among some scholars to avoid eating cheese immediately after eating meat. They changed the story to fit their reality, but made it illogical from the other end, by suggesting that Rav Asei had to ask whether one should wait between milk and meat. To claim that he asked this question, when the wide spread custom was to only wash hands between the two and not wait, borders in portraying him as ignorant. Furthermore, the Sevoraim argue that the Rabbi Yohanan who lived in Israel, should have adhered to the ruling of Rav Hisda, who lived in a later period in Babylonia.
The Talmud then digresses to tell a story about Rav Hisda who was asked by his disciple what is the status of meat stuck between the teeth. Rav Hisda replied with a verse: “the meat was still between their teeth” (Numbers 11:33). Most commentators understand Rav Hisda as saying that the meat never loses its status as meat, even if it was stuck between the teeth until the next meal. There is, however, the possibility that Rav Hisda alluded to the end of the verse which speaks of God’s anger with the people who behaved with gluttony, leading to their annihilation.
This seems to suggest that Rav Hisda espoused a particularly extreme opinion, not accepted by many in his generation, regarding a waiting period between meat and dairy, and that he warned of dire consequences and Divine punishment if people fail to follow his ruling.
The next and final segment in this Talmudic discussion quotes Mar Ukva, who says that he is like wine vinegar compared to his father. In Hebrew wine vinegar is חומץ בן יין – vinegar born of wine, and it is used as a metaphor for a son who is inferior to his father. The reason for that self-deprecation of Mar Ukva? His father used to wait 24 hours between meat and cheese, while Mar Ukva only avoided eating them at the same meal.
Geonic Period – 9th Century
It is very hard to reach a conclusive decision based on this Talmudic passage since there is no methodical discussion of the need to wait between meat and dairy. Rather, we have a collection of anecdotes, one of which is unsuccessfully altered.
Luckily, we have a source which helps us find out what was the outcome of the Talmudic discussion, and whether most people adhered to the strict views of Mar Ukva’s father and Rav Hisda, or accepted the more lenient approach of Rabbi Yohanan and Mar Ukva. That source is the work called הלכות גדולות, which was authored in 825 by Rabbi Shimon Kayara in Babylonia, and which reflects the normative Halakha in the Geonic period, between the Talmud and Maimonides. Writes Rabbi Shimon Kayara:[1]
Rav Nahman said that washing hands during the meal between courses is optional, unless one is about to eat cheese after meat, in which case he must wash hands in between. Rav Nahman’s statement is the reason the rabbis [today] allow eating cheese after meat.
Rabbi Shimon Kayara continues to explain that when Rav Hisda, whom we met in the previous discussion, said that eating cheese after meat is forbidden, he referred to those who do not eat something else, such as bread, in between, but even he agrees that one can eat meat and then cheese in the same meal if he eats something else between them.
[1] ספר הלכות גדולות, סימן א, הלכות ברכות, פרק שישי: מים אמצעיים רשות. אמר רב נחמן, לא שנו אלא שבין תבשיל לתבשיל אבל בין בשר לגבינה חובה. והאי דשרו רבנן גבינה בתר בשר, משמעתיה דרב נחמן… אמר רב חסדא, אכל בשר אסור לאכול גבינה, ודוקא בלא קינוח אבל מקנח פומיה שרי למיכל
